This week’s guest is Lenny Duncan (aka

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This book is in dialogue with Duncan’s prior work, Dear Church and United States of Grace. Duncan is forthright about their experience serving in the church, including his disappointment in its response to the Black Lives Matter protests of 2020 following the murder of George Floyd.

Their latest book is written in light of those developments as well as how shows like this one cultivates a certain kind of media ecosystem, what Lenny calls the thought leader industrial complex. Duncan’s work may be iconoclastic, but what Duncan wants is to name the things that are holding change back, push through them, and cultivate meaningful community & practices that serve people more than institutions. Both this book and this interview are an extension and reflection of their story.

You can follow along with Lenny at their Substack, A Sorcerer’s Notebook:

a sorcerer's notebook

Esoteric advice from a fool who can't leave well enough alone.

By rev/awo lenny duncan

A couple notes: we had a short window to talk, and I captured as much as I could during that time. You may hear some occasional sounds in the audio including from some bangles Lenny was wearing; I think it adds to the ambience personally, but your mileage may vary.

Listen to my prior conversation with Lenny on the show here:

You can support my work by using the show notes link to buy Lenny’s book from Bookshop.org, or by subscribing to this newsletter below. I donate 25% of net proceeds; check out the Support page to learn more.

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